Let me give you the undisputable facts!

These are the undisputable facts:

If god was "all powerful, all good and all knowing" as Christians claim he is, then he would KNOW about all the evil in the world, have the POWER to stop it, and seeing as he is ALL good, he WOULD stop it. And people who say "There needs to be evil to be good" just piss me off.

I also find it hard to believe that god allows suffering so that other human can learn from this and become better people. A 9 year old child dying from leukaemia is hardly a great way of making the parent's better people. If this is so, it makes god frighteningly close to a psychopath who throws a grenade into a crowd of people just to see the beautiful pattern the blood makes.

One thing I have noticed is how people will believe in god with no proof at all. Yet they would not believe in leprechauns or dragons. All of these things have just as much holding them up, except people choose to believe in god because they will always believe something that seems to explain what they don't understand. Leprechauns don't explain how the world was created but god does so you believe that one. Realise god is the fairy tale developed for people who had fear of death and loss of meaning in life.

I really don't see how people can believe a religion that has changed to adapt with certain scientific proofs over the years. For example the creation vs. evolution. at first it was said "evolution never happened" then when scientists proved it did happen, the religion ideals were adapted to suit "well evolution can happen sometimes" and this is the truth. Maybe it's not what YOU believe, but it has been said by priests.

I know you aren't going to listen to a word I say, you are going to retaliate with the usual "I hope you find the lord" and "I pray for your soul" and all that stuff. But it just makes me laugh. How can you honestly think, out of all the religions, yours is the one true faith?? For all we know we could BOTH be wrong and Hindu could be the true faith! What then?? see everyone expects there religion to be true. but with so many, and so little proof, just substantial coincidences and mishaps, how can you REALLY have faith? REALLY. A free mind is a strong one. and right now yours is bound to your Christian beliefs and ideal. Christianity is a way of living your life, maybe, moral standards, but don't for ONE SECOND think any of it is true.

My response is in Green:

You are wrong on a few counts. First I did listen to what you had to say. I don't agree, but that is not the same thing as not listening. Second you are wrong with the statement that these are undisputable facts. What facts? You also show your ignorance of the subject you want to talk about. That may not be entirely your fault. I take it from your comment about priests that you were a Catholic. That would explain part of your misunderstandings.

I am not a Catholic and I will tell you right up front I think they have it wrong. Their view of salvation is wrong, their view of creation (if they believe in evolution) is wrong, and there are many other items of faith where I think they have it wrong. I said all that not to bash them, but to let you know that I won't defend the Catholic position, only my own.

My problem with messages like yours is that you claim to be open minded, while you claim I am captive to my religion. Just how open minded are you? Have you bothered to read the Bible and study what it says? Have you bothered to really look at evolution and see what is fact and what is only theory? Or is it that you totally reject Christianity off hand and accept evolution blindly because that is what you think?

Let me give you an example. I believe that the Bible says; God created the entire universe in six 24 hour days. Period, no evolution, just God the Creator. Now what I am talking about is macro evolution. However, the Bible nor Christians have ever denied micro evolution (a better word would be variation). Do you understand the difference?

Macro evolution which is taught as fact but has no proof at all. For instance they claim through macro evolution that we all came from a rock, water and a lot of time. You, me and the computers we are using all evolved from a rock, water and billions of years. Do you really have faith in that theory?

Now micro evolution on the other hand is provable, it is the fact of evolution within species. For instance, I am taller and bigger than my father and he was taller and bigger than his father. That comes from several things; such as better science and disease control, better nutrition, etc... That is micro evolution in a very simplistic scale. Another example is all the different breeds of dogs. They come from a common ancestor, but they are all still dogs. No one denies that happens. But we do deny that my great, great, great, great grandfather was an ape or other species. You have heard of the missing link, right? Do you know why it is still missing? They can't find any proof that is why. Not just the link between primate and man, but between any species and another different species. In other words they can't find ANY proof of macro evolution!!

Now to your more philosophical points about God. The problem is that you don't understand God nor do you understand our relationship with Him. You made the common statements about if God is all powerful and all good and knows everything then why does He allow evil in the world and suffering. On the surface those sound like good questions, but they miss the whole point.

Let me give you a human example. Lets say that we here in the Untied States had all the money and power in the world. We could do anything we wanted to do. We took a look at the poor African countries and decided that we were going to help them. The first thing we did was go over they are teach them English, so we could communicate with them. In fact we forced them to learn English, after all it is for their own good. Then we built water treatment plants, and sewage treatment plants and houses for them to live in. They did not understand these things, so we being the loving compassionate people we are forced them into these cities with the modern conveniences, after all it was for their own good. Then we decided that their diet was not what it should be, so we forced them to eat only what we thought was right for them. They did not understand modern medicine and hygiene so we mandated that they accept medical treatment, when and how we chose. We decided when and how many children each family could have. We decided what jobs they could hold, what kind of pets they could or could not have. We decided what kind of entertainment and culture they would have from here on out. Then we decided that they were not grateful enough for all that we compassionate Americans have done for them, so we forced them into honoring us.

Now step back and look at these people, when do you think they were most free? When we helped them and took care of them, or when they were struggling on their own? I will bet you that they would give anything to go back to what their life was before we "helped" them. They might like some of what we did for them, but not all and not the way we did it.

Now lets try to equate that to man and God. This will break down pretty quickly but hopefully it will get my point across. God could do away with all the evil in the world, but to do so He would have to take our free will away from us. People do evil because that is what they want to do. You may not believe that, but until you have spent a couple years on an ambulance crew or as a Police Officer you don't know. God says: (Genesis 6:5 NIV) The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. That is all of us, we long to do evil. You don't have to teach a child to lie, it comes natural, you have to teach them to tell the truth. You don't have to teach them to be selfish you have to teach them to share with others.

My point to all of that is this; for God to do away with evil He would have to either do away with all of us, or take our free will away. Do you begin to see the parallel with the African country? He could do it for our own good, but would we really think it was such a great thing? Right now you have the choice whether to believe in Him or to honor Him as God. If He got rid of your free choice then you would have to honor Him, would you like that?

Now lets go back to the beginning. When God first created Adam and Eve (as human adults, I might add) He gave them free will. That means that He did not force them to do what was right, but He told them what He expected. There was only one, count them one, thing they could not do and that was exactly what they did. Now the consequence of that disobedience is why we have all the evil in the world today.

So to blame God for allowing the evil is backwards. There is another way He could stop the evil in its tracks. He could decree that anyone who sins would instantly die. Let me ask you a question if He had done that from the beginning would you be reading this message from me today? I guess in a way it is a trick question, because I would not be here to write the message, but even if I were you would not be around to read it. We would both be gone because we have both committed sins. You may disagree but if you are honest you know you have lied or done something else wrong in your life. (Romans 3:22-24 NIV) This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, {23} for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, {24} and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

So that begs the question why does God not kill us, or make us slaves to His will? Many people have asked that question, but God has an answer for it: (2 Peter 3:9 NIV) The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. You might wonder what promise is being spoken of here. It is the promise to punish anyone who has sinned. Yet as you can see from this passage God loves us all and does not want to punish us. He wants us to come to Him in repentance and be saved. So who is to blame for the evil in the world; God or us?

Now lets go back to your statement that horrible things happen to teach people lessons. That is not true. Sin is the author of the bad things in this world, the diseases, the birth defects, etc... I will admit that God sometimes uses them to bring people to Him. When a tragedy strikes people are more receptive to God, but again it is the sin which causes the tragedies in the first place.

Too often people try to say that everything that happens to people is because God is trying to teach them a lesson of some sort. There is a flaw in that kind of thinking. First, God does use circumstances to teach us things and to help us grow, but you have to know who us is. Us, meaning the people who serve Him. He only has one thing in mind for you, and that is to bring you to repentance. Until you take care of where your soul spends eternity He is not trying to teach you any lessons or help you grow, He may be trying to get your attention but that is it.

You claim there is no evidence for God. Well I will let Him answer that for you. People say that I am blunt, but let me warn you so is God: (Psalms 14:1ff NIV) The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. Plus He says you have all the proof you need: (Romans 1:20 NIV) For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

You also claim you don't know how people can believe. Well why don't you try to find out? Why not try to prove that the Bible was written by a bunch of first century guys for fun. If that is true it should be pretty easy to prove. Let me give you a word of caution, there have been many people who have undertaken this and have ended up not only not disproving the Bible but becoming believers themselves.

Well if you are still reading this message I am impressed, most 'open minded free thinkers' won't read what a Christian has to say. They are so open minded that they come to my site to tell me off and then accuse me of forcing my religion down their throats.

If you are still reading and are interested let me give you a quick overview of what I believe: God is holy and demands death for anyone who sins. (Ezekiel 18:4 NIV) For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

That is the bad news, we are all under a death sentence from a Holy God, who can't stand sin and we have all sinned. Now for the good news. God loves us and does not want us to go to hell to be punished for our sins. Because He is Holy He can't just forgive and forget our sins, His Holy nature demands that some one pays for those sins. (John 3:16 NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Here is more good news: (Romans 5:8 NIV) But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So what does this mean to us. It means that if we die without getting right with God we will go to hell for eternity and suffer in punishment for our sins. However, if we will believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for our sins, and if we confess our sins (admit them to God) and ask Him to forgive us, He will. And if we believe that after He died God the Father raised Him back to life then we will be saved and if we die we will go to be with God. (Romans 10:9 NIV) That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I hope you find what you are looking for and what you can live with now and for eternity. It is up to you.

Ralph

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