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One of the things that I attempt to do while surfing the World Wide Wed is witness to people about Jesus Christ. I do not try to condemn anyone or belittle their beliefs, I only try to tell them about Jesus.

These responses have come from e-mail sent to me about the message of Jesus Christ.

NOTE: Anything that I sent in an e-mail will be in GREEN
Any reply from someone else will be in BLUE
Anything in BLACK is just a comment but not part of the discussion with the person.

I received more responses than just the ones listed below, however, the rest of the e-mails were primarily just vulgar expressions of hate. If I censored them for posting there would be nothing left to post.

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I'm sorry man but JESUS IS DEAD! Not that he ever exsisted.

Thanks for writing me. If you did a little searching you would find that Jesus' life is well documented by non-Christian historians from the Roman Empire. So that would prove to you that He was a real person who really exsisted.

Next you say that He is dead. Well that is harder to prove to someone who does not want to believe but let me just bring up one small point. When Jesus was taken to the cross to be killed, all the people who had been followers of Him, ran. They were scared, they did not want anyone to know they even knew Him.

Then three days later, when Christians believe He (Jesus) arose from the dead and appeared to His followers, those same people who had run scared became strong. Almost all of them ended up being martyred for their beliefs. Again you can document their deaths through non-Christian historians. The Romans were good record keepers. Now ask yourself from a human point of view, why would these guys be willing to die horrible deaths if they had not really seen Jesus? If this was all just a big lie why would so many people be willing to die for it?

The other way to prove Jesus is alive now, is to ask Him to come into your heart and forgive you. He will make a difference in your life. Of course you have to be serious about asking Him. You can read many testimonies of people who have done just that and see how their lives were changed. Of course you have to have an open mind to even try to find out.

Well thanks again for writing to me. I just want to leave you with one last thought: John 3:17-18 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Take care of yourself.

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All those people died for something because one guy wanted power and gained it through telling the people to do what he said. They then killed themselves or he would torture them.

Funny how someone you said was dead could force anyone to do anything and then torture them if they didn't. Plus like I said you can verify the accounts through people's writings that were not Christians.

You say that there are non-christian acounts of Jesus exsisting... what non-Christians? The people Christians never met, or the ones they killed for God?

Roman officials. Cornelius Tacitus (born A.D. 52-54) a Roman historian, Lucian of Samosata, a satirist of the second century, Flavius Josephus (born A.D. 37) a Jewish historian, Suetonius (A.D. 120) Roman historian and court official under Hadrian, Plinius Secundus, Pliny the Younger - Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. All of these people were not Christians yet they wrote about Jesus. If I read my history right the Christians did not kill the Romans but the Romans did throw the Christians to the lions and kill them in other ways.

I am sure what you are trying to get at is that many people have been killed by people that called themselves Christians, and I agree with you about that. The only problem is that they were not really Christians. If you want to know how I know it is because to be a true Christian you have to follow Christ and He taught against killing. Anyone can say they are anything, but you have to look at what they did to tell for sure. Even Jesus talked about these kinds of people while He was here on earth, He said: Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:20-23

Jesus said to go into all the world and tell the people about Him, He never said go kill those that don't believe. You will never hear me stick up for these kinds of people. To be a Christian in my book is to follow the teachings of Christ if you don't then you are not a Christian.

Well take care, it was nice talking to you again.

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I got your email from your Jesus web page. I just finished a religeous discusion with people like you. You people make me sick. How could someone be so stupid.

Thanks for writing to me. I wondered since you said you got my e-mail address from my Jesus page, I take it you got to my page from the Marilyn Manson page? Just wondering. I am sorry that you call me stupid and sick even though you don't know anything about me, but someone like Brian Warner who says he wants to destroy Christianity is okay by you? You also say you just finished a religious discussion with people like me, yet you don't know anything about me, except that I believe in Christ and have accepted Him as my Savior. I could say the same thing to you, I have had discussions with atheist just like you. But I won't because I don't know what just like you means and neither do you about me. Still I am glad you wrote me.

It greatly saddens me that the human race hasn't yet got the primative belief in Gods. Look back at the beginings and ends of all of the other DEAD religeons and guess what will happen to christianity in the next 100 years. And don't just read this message I have prepared for you, listen to it, consider for one sec that maybe i'm right rather than instantly claiming all I say is bull****.

Oh I have thought about what you wrote me. I makes me feel sorry that you are so upset at Christians, after all in another 100 years no one will remember who Christ was, right? If that is so, why do you hate us so much? Also why have so many countries, other religions, rulers, etc... tried to destroy Christianity? It has lasted for 2,000 years but you think it will disappear in the next 100. Let's take your other point, I will consider for a second that you might be right, so what? What should I do if you are? Should I quit trying to live a good life because you are right and Christ was not really God? Should I worship someone or something else? What? Why? Okay the second is up, now why don't you take a second and consider that I might be right? What have you got to lose? Nothing. What have you got to gain. Everything. If I am right you could have eternal life, just by asking Jesus into your heart and asking Him to forgive you. That is it. That is what upsets you so badly, that I believe that? Think about why that upsets you. Don't tell me it does not bother you. If it didn't why did you bother taking all the time to write me your message?

Think about why you are a christian, and I mean really think about it. Is it because christianity is the CORRECT religeon, or is it because your parents/parent is a christian and your life you were told this is correct.

It might help you to read my whole page. If you had you would have seen that yes I grew up in a Christian home, however I turned away from it. I did come back but it was after finding out for myself what the world and God was all about.

And don't give me that crap God loves me. Do you know God, does he talk to you? Did he tell you he loves me. Face it you don't honestly know if he loves me or not, you don't even know if he loves you.

Yes I do know God, and yes He has talked to me. He has also talked to you, but I guess you have not listened. If you read the Bible then you can hear God talk, because that is His Word. Okay I know you don't believe that, but ask yourself a couple of questions. What makes the Bible so special? You can't say that it is not different from all other books. It was written by many people over a couple of thousand years, yet it is consistent. It has prophecies in it that came true down to the smallest detail hundreds of years after the writer wrote about them. You don't have to believe anything I say about that you can go to non-Christian books to prove those facts. It is the most widely published and owned book in the world. People have been willing to die just because they have it in their possession. Name another book that comes anywhere close to that. God says in His word that He loves you. He sent His Son, Jesus to die for all the sins you have committed. John 3:16-18 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Basicly you don't know s***. And don't get me wrong nether do I. But the difference between you and I are, I don't claim I know any of this. I state my belief and I state proven facts.

I guess I missed all the proven facts, what were they again? You see you do exactly what you claim I am doing. You tell me I am stupid and that I don't know anything, yet how do you know? You say you don't claim to know anything, then you must not know that I am wrong, so why did you write me? It is not hard to prove that Christ lived, you can get that from many non-Christian historical accounts from the Roman empire. They kept pretty good records. Now does that prove He was the Son of God? No, but you can prove that He died. You can also prove that the band of people who followed Him while He was alive ran when He was taken to the cross, yet three days later after they claimed that He appeared to them having risen from the dead, they were willing to die before saying this was not true. What would cause a bunch of guys who ran scared, three days later be brave enough to give their lives for a lie? If it was all a hoax don't you think at least one of them would have said so before he died? Why die for a lie? Could it be that they really did see Him again alive and that gave them strength and faith?

I do not go around saying God is Good, or anything like that if I didn't know whether or not it was true. And don't tell me you know its true because you don't. In case your wondering I am an aethist. I do not belive there is a God, I belive Jesus existed, but I do not belive he has the son of God, and I do not belive he is or was a prophet.

Well at least you don't fall into the trap of people who say Jesus was a prophet or a good man, because there are only three possibilities. He was either God's Son, like He claimed, or He was a liar or He was a mad man. Nothing else just one of those three. I guess you go for liar? You say you are an atheist, what do you mean about that? You say there is no God at all? Or are we all gods? We all came from a big explosion in space of two gases? Where did the gases come from? How did we and the computers we are typing on come from gases. Man if you believe that you have more faith than I ever thought about having. What do you think happens when we die? Do we just die like dogs and that is it? Do you really believe that all that you are, the things you love and the things that you hate, etc... will just stop existing when you die?

Please give me a good responce. Also tell me about what you belive people do when they go to Heaven and Hell if you belive that, I really would like to know what you believe.

I am glad you asked me. I believe that in hell a person who has rejected Christ as their Savior will be tormented day and night for eternity. You should have seen my judgment page when you first got to my site, that is if you came from the Manson page.

In Heaven on the other hand I believe that things will be the way they were suppose to be before man's fall in the garden of eden. I believe we will be worshipping God but much more than that. I believe if you can imagine a world without sin, no one killing each other, no one cheating, no hate, no disease, etc... that is what it will be like. I don't believe we will all be wearing white robes and laying around eating grapes all day. Exactly what we will be doing on a daily basis, I don't know, but everything you see around you was made by God, so why would He have us live eternity doing nothing?

Well take care, I will pray for you. Feel free to write back and ask more questions.

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Look dude, I don't even understand why your text is in the middle of Manson's page??? But, let me tell you something - there is absolutely no reason why a pagan like me should blindley take it for granted that Jesus was God incarnate....I believe Jesus was a prophet...

I can understand that you don't believe as I do, but I think you need to think more about what you do believe. Jesus could not be a prophet. First you don't seem to believe in God so how could Jesus be a prophet sent from God? But even more important than that, you have to choose a side. Either Jesus was who He said He was or He was a liar or just plain crazy. He can't be just a good person or prophet! Would a prophet try to convince people that he was God incarnate? Would a prophet try to makes plans to make it look like he was resurrected from the dead after being killed? Would a prophet claim to be able to forgive sins, something only God can do? No Jesus was not a prophet or just a good man, He was either God or a liar.

BUT DUDE - what about all the rest of the religions of the world ??? Are those people in China for instance going to Hell because they don't accept Jesus???

Well I can't directly answer that, although I can tell you that I believe they are. I say I can't answer it because only God can do that so I will let Him do it. Here is what Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

NOTE: I just wanted to clarify one point. I believe God only judges people on what they do know and what they do with that knowledge, not on what they don't know. If a person never hears about Jesus Christ, God won't hold them accountable for not accepting Him. However, I do believe that in one way or another God speaks to everyone and everyone knows in their heart that there is a God out there. Even though the person would not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, because they have never heard of Him, they still have the choice whether to acknowledge a supreme being (God) or not.

The spiritual force I believe in is Dualities..You have polarities in life..If you want to continue after death then you don't go to some "easy place" forever..And you DON'T BURN IN HELL either!!!! You may be punished but not for eternity....I would not want to believe in OR even BE a God that would create something then throw it into a pit for not believing something out of a BOOK WRITTEN BY MAN...Yes , the bible was written by men...I believe it is an amazing story - but that is what it is - a story..

Well saying the Bible was written by men is like saying that you were created by your mother and father. It has a certain ring of truth to it, but God was involved. Without Him it would not have happened. Man has been trying to create life for a long time and so far no luck. Men have been writing books for a long time too, but so far no luck in writing one like the Bible. Even if you don't believe that the Bible is inspired by God, you have to admit it is a very different book than any other the world has ever known. How do you explain all the predictions that have come true? Pretty good for just a bunch of guys who made up a story don't you think? In fact it was lots of guys over thousands of years, yet they predicted things to come and their 'stories' are consistent with each other. Not bad for a book just written by a bunch of guys with too much time on their hands. Also most of the people who wrote the New Testament died for what they believed and not in nice ways. That is real dedication for someone who just made up a story.

Just as the indians, etc had stories, the bible is no different...Ying / yang is a far older spiritual path than christianity..You will always have to deal with dualities...Unless you want to stop the ride ....Then you just die!!!

You are right there are many older religions but again show me one where it has changed the world as drastically as Christianity or in such a short time. Or one that has made so many thousand year old predictions that have come true. One whose followers were scared of their own shadows until their leader (Jesus) rose from the dead and they saw and talked to Him. After which they were brave enough to give their lives for their beliefs. See it is not the same as all the rest.

The only hell is what we create for ourselves on earth...Yes we are without direction now...BUT LOVE DOESN'T WORK NOW...Its become sooo sick !!! If you were to Martyr yourself like Jesus did (I do believe he died for people's benefit) then people would call you crazy !!! They would not pay you the least bit of attention...The only thing is to dust off the old part of duality that bumps them back on line...If you run people into a black hole of pain, despair, issolation from true social togetherness- like we have now.....Then after enough pain, the white part that exists in every person will come out !!! Some may have to DIE..But is that so bad --compared to eternal hell.....NO, you just have some souls that fail to make it to immortality....

You know you are right again if I was martyred no one much would care, but then I could not save them from their sins. I cannot even save myself, but Jesus could and did save me from my sins. There are Christians martyred everyday somewhere in the world. What is it about us crazy Christians that makes us willing to be killed for what we believe? For that matter what is it about us that makes people want to kill us just because of what we believe? Do I want to be a martyr, no way, but I believe God would give me the grace to go through that if it ever is required of me. I hate to disagree with you but you see we are all immortal beings. The problem is that being immortal is not the problem, where you spend eternity is. When you are born God creates a soul and that soul will never die. I don't blame you for not wanting to believe in hell being eternal, it scares me too. Not for myself because I won't have to go there, but for some of my friends and even those who don't like me. I don't like to think of anyone going there. But no one will ever end up there and be able to say "I never knew. I did not have a chance." They may say they didn't believe but not that they didn't know. Now before you ask me about people who never have heard the message of Jesus Christ let me tell you I don't believe that if a person has never truly heard they will be judge for it. A person will only be judged by what they did know.

We need an Antichrist-- The christians want one!!! They want it worse than we pagans want one...We see it as a dark spirit that inflicts enough pain to "wake up the light"

You are wrong there. I don't know of any Christians who want an antichrist. We know there will be one and that God's judgment is almost here when the antichrist shows up and after that the world will be a better place. So some of us are ready for the antichrist, but I would not say we want him. I am interested in what light you think the antichrist is going to wake up? Where does this antichrist come from. After all the only place I have ever heard of him is in that book written by men. Sorry I could not resist that.

IF YOU NEED ENLIGHTENMENT - email me

REMEMBER - THERE WERE PAGANS AND OTHER PEOPLE LONG BEFORE JESUS CAME ALONG --- and we'll be here when this storm is over...

What storm are you talking about? Christianity? Many people and for that matter many nations have tried to destroy Christianity. If you look around most of those that tried are the ones gone. Until God puts an end to human folly I believe there will be pagans. But it is interesting to me that pagans who claim there is no God worship all kinds of things. Have you ever wondered why it is that almost all humans worship something. Whether it is wooden statues, stars, satan, mother earth, or whatever? Do you think that maybe God placed in every soul the desire to know Him, but many people try to fill that void with something else? Just a thought. One last point God was here long before any of us, Christians, pagans whomever.

Hey I enjoyed this discussion. If you want to continue just write back. If not take care of yourself and if you ever change your mind I will be right here. Well that is unless Christ raptures us crazy Christians out of this world soon.

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We believe in dualities...We believe in doing things NOW to evoke good vibes and to really make a difference here , now...That is kinda of a boring, half hearted attempt at spiritualism to say "all I have to is to beleive what the preacher told me and I will go to heaven"?????

Then what motivation do you hae for doing good now!!! You have a scarecrow to tell you WHAT NOT TO DO.. But you are dead to the world on a day by day basis, dude!!!

You self rightous pigs - think that you are the elite ones.... I got new for you PIG... will go to your hell before I go to a heaven where you self rightous, arrogant motherf*****s are !!!!

Sorry you feel the need to attack me. Seems funny that you tell me you are the ones who believe in doing good now and that my views would give a person no reason to do good, yet you are the one who cusses me out.

Maybe you should try to figure out what makes you so mad about the message of Jesus Christ. Could it be that deep inside you know there is something missing? I am sorry you think I am self righteous, I am not. I am as bad a sinner as you ever have been. The only difference is that I accepted that fact and asked Jesus to forgive me. He will do the same for you. What have you got to lose. If I am right, you have everything to gain. If I am wrong you still lose nothing.

You say we Christians think we are the elite ones, but the problem with that is Christianity is open to everyone. It is kind of like standing on two different sides of a ledge. The people on one side (the Christians) say, hey come over here with us, because your side is going to collapse, we know because the builder told us it was not safe. But all the people on the other side call us self rigthous, or they say we think we are the elite. If we really were we would not say anything just wait until that side fell then pat ourselves on the back for being smarter than everyone else. Instead we try to tell people even though we know we will be looked down on and called names.

Here is another example, I have people tell me that there is no God, that I am stupid for believing in Him. Then I tell them okay, but I will pray for you. They get mad at me. Why? If there is no God then I am just wasting my time, so why get mad? I brought that up because I wanted to tell you that I will pray for you. I figure from your last message that will upset you, but so be it. I will pray that God opens your eyes so that you can see that you are on the shaky ledge and so that you will want to come over to the solid side. All you have to do is believe that Jesus is God's Son and that He died for your sins. Ask Him to forgive you and that is it.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

"The soul who sins is the one who will die." Ezekiel 18:9

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8

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If you do this to make yourself look good in this world, you will be damn. All you want is fame, and all you will get is burning in flame. You don't need a web page to make God look like gold. He is gold you moron. So in the meantime keep learning more about salvation because you will see that even when you die, you will not know everything there is to know about God. Oh! Every book there is in this world won't save you. Only you can do that on your own. And please stop saying that Jesus will take care of us. He already did. Now it is up to us to make the final decision...

Do not reply because this is someone who happends to be using someone elses web and happened to run into your ego life...

If you allowed someone else to use your e-mail account then please pass this on to them. Thanks for writing. You are right I won't ever know everything there is to know about God. But I don't have a web page to bring glory to myself, my web page is meant to bring glory to Jesus Christ. Again you are right He has already done everything for us.

My problem with your letter is that you seem to know that Jesus died for your sins but you don't want anyone else to know. I say that because if you did, you would not be upset that my page is on the web so that others can read the message of salvation. I know my page is not perfect, but if it leads just one soul to a relationship with Christ it will be worth all the abuse I get from people who don't like it.

You said you just happened to run into my ego life... Maybe you need to read my page again, you see I am not proud of my life, in fact I am embarrassed of most of it. I have never been anything, until Christ came into my life and I started letting Him run things.

Again I thank you for writing. I could not tell from your letter where your heart is. You sound as if you believe Christ died for our sins. If you have a relationship with Him, then it is time you started thinking about telling others about it, if you don't have a relationship with Him then why not?

Take care, I will pray for you.

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I hope you signed our book because you liked the music. I have no problem with God but I do have a problem with preachers messing with our fun. If you like and are interested in our music thanx we work very hard at what we do, if you can't tell in this kind of music all odds are against us. Please don't lable us through religeon and please don't try to brainwash our fans there comes a time in life when everyone gets to know god let our freinds find him on their own. We are not Evil We do not need to be saved. Thanx.

PS Don't get me wrong there are evil people who do need your help please be there for them.

Hey thanks for writing me. I hope you don't think I was trying to mess with your fun. All I was trying to do is invite you to my page. Now I must admit I wanted you to see the message of Jesus Christ, because He loves you and died for you. I don't want and I am not trying to brainwash anyone. It would not work anyway. No matter what you think of Christians one of the things we believe is that God gave us freedom of choice and He requires us to make a free choice to accept Him. If it is not a feely made choice it would do no good. No one can ever force someone to be a Christian. Now it might be possible to force someone to say they were a Christian, but again it would not count anyway, so what would be the use?

Well take care of yourself, have fun, but remember God loves you and He sent His Son to die for you. If you ever feel like talking more just write.

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Hello Web Master... I found your link from another heathen Christian site! I wonder what it is about you people... You seem to talk out of both sides of your mouth!

As an ex-assemblies of God Minister, I have researched the Bible well... as well as several other so-called-Christian faiths, in America today! I have seen how Satan has slipped into your faith, and has bastardized it....he is so clever, and you dont see it!

Have a wonderful day!

Thanks for writing. I would be happy to discuss my faith with you but it would be nice if you stated what you believe. You know what I believe already. If you want to discuss things fine otherwise thanks for writing, I will pray for you.

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Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to everyone. do not bear false witness [do not lie].
I am a jealous God, thou shalt have no other gods before me. [nor would I imagine that God would like to share space with other gods, would you not agree?]

So far we agree, but your first statements did not make sense to me. Maybe you could explain where you are coming from. Or tell me what you take exception to on our site. Otherwise we are both just wasting our time. But I will continue to pray for you.

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My issue with organized religion is that they teach people that lieing is wrong on one hand, and promote lies on the other. They proclaim the Bible to be the Word of God on one hand, and on the other say that we don't have to obey it's teachings.

Take Christmas for instance, a pagan holiday, sharing time with God, claiming and teaching that it is the Birthday of Christ. ( a total lie, for those that have a brain, and can think for themselves. )

We share the same hemisphere as Biblical lands, and I dont really think that the shepards are out watching their flocks, but rather would have them in the barn, feeding them hay.

Another problem I have with your organized faiths is, Easter.. A Pagan Rite of Fertility, sharing time with the reserection of Christ.

My belief, is of a Biblical reference that "a house divided against itself, shall not stand". Yet we teach our children that these holidays, are the 2 highest in the Christian faith.

There is no mention in the Bible, of the actual date of birth of Christ, and there is no commandment that we observe it. Nor is there a particular date set for the reserection of Christ, other than the reference to the Feast of Passover, (a holiday that Christ observed, that Christins that follow Him???? seem to have forgotten about.)

We at times wonder the reasons that our children commit suiside, yet we fail to look at the roots of the problem. We teach them that there are "no no's in life, and then on the other side of our mouths, we tell them that it's ok to observe falsities in the name of the God that forbids it.

I wonder what our life would be like if, we would stick to the teachings of the Bible, and tell Satan where he can put the inconsistancies, that he has encouraged in the Christian faith.

My opinion is that the Christian Church, as it is called today, is none other than the Church of Satan, because of the things that are "accepted" as OK, because we are honoring God?????

Your praying for me?

No Sir!!!!! I AM PRAYING FOR YOU!

I thank you for your prayers, but I have to ask who you are praying to? Please don't be offended by that, but you see you have said some things in the past that made me think you rejected Christ. Then in this message you claim we (Christians) are the ones who have rejected Him. I see some of your points, but I think you are taking things the wrong way. No we do not know when Jesus was born, but is it wrong to celebrate His birth? Yes the Christmas season was a pagan holiday, but the church brought Christ into it. Many people want to take Christ out of Christmas, and believe it or not you sound like one of them, but for a different reason. The same is true of Easter, again you are right, but what would you have us do, not celebrate Christ's resurrection? The pagan holidays would still be celebrated at Christmas time and at Easter, but Christ and His message would be no where to be found. Would that make us more holy? I personally don't think so.

I must agree with you also about our kids. But you can't lump all people together anymore than you can lump all those who claim to be Christian together. My kids have heard the word NO. They understand it too. I have a lot of problems with the "Christian" church, but I don't plan on leaving Christ over it.

You also mentioned that Christians don't celebrate the passover. Well I think you are wrong there too. If the Christian is a Jew I am sure they do celebrate it. As for those of us that are not Jews, no we don't celebrate it since it is not part of 'our' history. After all the passover was when God spared the Jewish babies while killing the Egyptian babies. God commanded the Jews to celebrate it in remembrance of His faithfulness to them. We have many many things to thank God for and to celebrate but this is not one of them.

In your first message to me when you called me a heathen you stated: "I have researched the Bible well... as well as several other so-called-Christian faiths, in America today! I have seen how Satan has slipped into your faith, and has bastardized it....he is so clever, and you don't see it!" I took this to mean that you have read the Bible but reject it. If I am mistaken and that is not what you meant than I am sorry. If that is indeed what you meant then I don't understand yet where you are coming from.

You also mentioned in this message about shepherds not being out tending their sheep. I don't understand. If you believe the Bible then you believe they were out tending their flocks when Jesus was born, but no one said that they are doing it now. If you reject the Bible than why even bring that up? One last point I want to make. I still don't know what you believe but I will give you the bottom line on what I believe. That is that Christ died for our sins and that we receive salvation through grace. If we believe that Christ died for our sins and ask Him to forgive us we are saved. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8-9

Well I hope I have not upset you. If you would like to continue our discussion, I will be happy to also. Take care.

Ralph Dettwiler

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The crap you try to feed people truely sickens me. your life-long struggle to impose guilt on others and to remove their individuality will surely damn you if there is a god in existance. Isn't it time you saved yourself from the false arms of fundamentalism, and became your own god?

I won't pray for your soul.

Thanks for writing me. I am not trying to impose guilt on anyone, if you feel guilt than you need to look at why that is. All I try to do is spread God's word. Some day we will both know for sure who is right and who is wrong. If you are right what have I lost? Nothing. If I am right what have you lost? I guess you have to answer that for yourself.

I will pray for you. Thanks again for writing. By the way if you got to my page from the (Marilyn) Manson site than you probably only saw two pages, a very small part of my site. You might like to see the rest. Also ask yourself, since you claim I am the one trying to impose guilt on people, who put the link to my page on the Manson site? I sure didn't. They did it to ridicule me, but my faith is strong enough to handle that.

Take care and if you feel like discussing anything, feel free to write me. I will be right here.

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Dear Ralph,
you no doubt think I am an occultist who is totally down on god. that is not entirely true......first about me: I am a retired sailor. when at sea I was an operations specialist, when ashore I was in the military police detachment or base police, working in conjunction with the border patrol, DEA, and other federal agencies. I love making web pages and do so just for the fun of it.........

I have read the BIBLE, the rest of the story put out by the Mormans,and various books on the subject of vampires........I believe in a supreme being (GOD) but I have a hard time with the various religious sects and their interpritations of what religion is, who or what GOD is, and what they think GOD said. I believe that most of the "stories" in the BIBLE are just that and that they were put there to scare people, causing them to flock together like sheep, and feeling that the person, the mortal human being, on the pulpit would somehow protect them from evil. as humans we tend to be sociable and like to congragate together for strength and fellowship. Anything that happens that we think GOD did, was really what we did because of our "beliefs" our mental capacity, which we only use 10% of, cause us to act in such a way as to get things done. The preachers all talk about an all merciful GOD yet, the BIBLE is riddled with incest, murder, mayhem, mass killing and fatal revenge....To me that is not all merciful........as for the webpages I create, they are just the same as the preacher on the pulpit, something to cause people to congragate on the net with something in common. Most all the people I talk with on the net are religious and believe in some way, that there is a supreme being that will redeem them and take them to a heaven, vahala, greener pastures and protect them from what goes bump in the night. There are a few maybe 1 tenth of 1% that actually "hate" GOD and think killing is the thing to do whether with a gun, drugs, alcohol, autos,etc. that is reality, we among other traits are war mongers, whether for religious reasons, political reasons, or because someone crossed the fence without permission.....

I am not against religion, I say my prayers to the GOD ALMIGHTY up in heaven every night before going to bed..........I just cannot accept some other mortal human being standing before me saying "GOD is speaking to you through me" GOD does not need amplifiers, radios, or speakers to get the "WORD" across. Each human being somewhere in that 90% of our brain we don't use (kind of like a huge ROM) is the "WORD" and each time we are using the 10% of our brain to cope in daily life, and hit a snag, we click our virtual mouse button and tap into the ROM and get the appropriate "WORD" and bring it into the 10% to help us cope. I believe the concept of the "BIBLE" just not the stories or other interpritations by other mortal human beings like myself, some of whom can be so self rightous that they become hypocritical. If this in any way causes you pain I am truely sorry for I wish that on no one your friend in GOD

Thanks for writing to me. You do not offend me in the least. I also understand your point of view, although I don't agree with it. You see I don't believe we should keep our eyes on humans either, they will let you down every time!! I do believe the Bible, because I believe it is God's word, so I try to follow it. As far as all the bad things being done in the name of religion, again I agree with you. But where we disagree is why they were done. I contend that anyone can call themselves a Christian and still go out and kill, rape, or whatever. But if a person is a true Christian than they have to follow what Christ taught and He taught that those things are wrong.

You said that you felt the Bible made God into something to be afraid of, again I don't agree. The old testament does tell a lot of stories that show God's wrath, but it also shows His love. He does demand certain things of us and in the end we will be judged as to whether we followed those things or not. Second, since I believe the Bible, I see God as having more love then I as a human can comprehend. He created us and then became one of us (as Jesus) so that He could save us from ourselves. All men have sin, so none of us can atone for our own sins much less for anyone else's', that is where Jesus comes in, He was sinless so He could atone for our sins. All He asks is that we believe in Him and ask Him to forgive us. I don't call that a hate filled God.

Well I don't want to bore you too much. If you would like to continue our discussion, I would love to. I believe that a Christian should be able to discuss his beliefs without just falling back on 'because God said so!'

Thanks again for writing me. If you took a good look around my page you saw that most people who don't agree with me are not as nice as you are. It is funny because they accuse me of being intolerant but they are the ones who write me and threaten and curse.

Take care and I will pray for you.

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Ralph,
If I recall the scripture correctly the LORD only spoke once and that was to Moses on the mount. any other correspondence was by the angels and his son JESUS......and that is another problem I have, artificial insemination. Why give Mary the burden? He is our creator why not just create a son. What about Lot's wife, just because she turned her head a little too far to the left, zap no more life for her she was now a pillar of salt. Not merciful to me. Lot could look that was ok. And it was ok for Lot's daughters to commit incest just because there were no other men around. Ah how about Eve, she was given pain and forced from her house once a month because she took a bite of an apple. Only a whore, and mary magdalene were treated well and that was by JESUS not GOD. I am not down on men nor am I a feminist but I think that is a bit one sided to me.

I agree with you GOD loves us one and all but, only if we do as he says not as he does. I could probably find in the BIBLE where GOD has broken each and every commandment passed to Moses on the mount.....If we do that we get punished.......It is not ok for the man on the street to break the law, but if you be the makers of the law and visiting dignitaries you are above the law. That is where I fall short in belief. I once wrote an admiral a ticket for parking in front of a fire hydrant, I was praised by the admiral but, my superiors thought that was terrible. It was just not done. I guess the point I am trying to make is all my life I have been told " do as your told not as others do " by my priest, my parents, my military superiors, yet they all went and did just the opposite. my parents drank, my priest was arrested for adultry, and so on. Here I was dumbfounded, gee if I should not do it but they do it I guess it is really ok.......

Believe me Ralph you do not bore me I find religion very exciting and interestin. So with that I will leave you to your work, spreading the word of the GOD ALMIGHTY and I will keep the Devil's minions at bay...AH the devil, he was an angel too, he just did not follow the rules either..........

The first point I want to make is that Jesus was God. They are the same being although they are separate too. As for why Jesus was born of Mary, that is because He was God but He was also a man. If God just appeared as a full grown adult and told everyone He was a man, it would not have been the same thing. He took on our nature and He did that through Mary.

Yes God does demand that we follow rules, and it is not our job to judge Him, yet I think you are wrong about some of what the Bible says or at least why it says some things. The old testament was before Christ and therefore there was no way for man to be forgiven from sin, except the LAW which God handed down. Most of what happens in the old testament is meant to show man that there is no way that he can keep God's laws. This is all to show us that we need Christ to forgive us our sins. I take it that you were or are Catholic. I must admit I have a problem with the Catholic church and it has to do with this very point. The Catholic church says that you get to heaven by works and that is not true, no man will ever be good enough on his own. We are saved by grace alone. You even made my point, about your priest, etc... If you watch humans they will stumble and fall, because we are human.

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Question: when it says in a day HE created the heavens did that mean 24 hrs or 1000 yrs as we know them today? I mean there were people who lived from 200 to 900 years were these years as we know a year or were they years equivalent to decades of today? Even for GOD, creating heaven, was a large task. I am sorry, I'm sounding like a secular male offspring of a bassett hound. It is just that these questions are buzzing around in my head with no answers..........

I will tell you what I believe but others believe differently. I believe that once He made light and dark and called it day and night then everything written was in 24 hour days. I know some people say He may have taken millions of years to create the earth, but I don't believe that.

If we break one of the commandments say: Thou shall not kill, we are with sin and will be punished just like Cain was punished. But when GOD killed all the people in sodom and gomorrah HE was not punished,come on, true they all were sinners and worshiped a fake god, an idol, but really, that was no reason to kill them...

Well my problem here is that you are trying to make God human and He is not. He created us, who are we to question Him if He decides to do away with all of us. Now, don't get me wrong, I would blame Him if He did something that He said He would not do. For instance if He killed all living beings on the earth with a flood I believe that would be wrong for Him, because He said He would not do it. You have to remember that He tried to get the people to turn from their evil but they refused. Sorry but it sounds fair to me. Some day He is going to destroy the whole earth with fire, but it should be no surprise to anyone, He told us at least 2,000 years ahead of time how to avoid it. So is He wrong for being honest and doing what He said He is going to do, just because we choice not to believe?

Oh yah my good buddy Lot "here take my virgin daughters and do what you will to them just don't touch these two messengers from GOD" really now, tell me truthfully would you offer your daughters in place of an angel, someone with the power of GOD to help them, to be raped,murdered or whatever? I surely would not. You don't send a soldier into the enemy's camp without protection......here we go with the women again. these angels were men.......

Well again, I never read anywhere in the Bible where God told Lot to send out his daughters. Plus this all goes back to the sins being committed by the people there. They did not want women they wanted men. I can't speak for God but I believe that He would not have let anything happen to Lot's daughters just like He did not let anything happen to any of the people in Lot's house.

everywhere I look in the BIBLE women are being sacraficed,punished for what? The koran more or less says women are second class citizens......Eve was punished for being curious and down through the ages women were punished and they still are today........ sorry I get on a soapbox and I don't know when to shut up.

No problem, like I said I enjoy this. For one I don't believe the Koran is the inspired word of God, so I don't really care what it says. Next the Bible is not only God's word but it is also a history book. It tells of things that happened whether God wanted them to happen or not. So you can't blame God for everything in the Bible that happened. There were lots of times that the Israelites did things that made God very angry but they are written down for us anyway.

how about Abraham or abram as some call him, son we are going to give you a nation all your own, your baren wife sarah will be with child, ol' abram he didn't believe that. so time went on it was relayed to abram again, don't forget that nation, and abram said "what will I have to do" just believe in GOD he was told. his son Isaac was born and time went on and abram was asked again did he believe in GOD, he said "yes" and he was told 'prove it, take your only son and kill him, sacrafice him' and he was going to do it! If someone, anyone can't accept my word as truth then forget it.........If..To prove to GOD you are truthful and trusting, you have to be willing to kill someone you love, flesh of your flesh...no! no! I'm sure you have heard of the gangs "the crypts" and "the bloods" they do that to see if you are worthy of belonging to the gang.....help me here, Ralph cause I am going to HELL on the express train...........

I look at this story much differently than you do. I believe that God knew what Abraham would do before He tested Him, but did Abraham? What I mean is sometimes we are tested to show US what we will or will not do. I am sure from reading my page you know that I was a Deputy Sheriff for 6 1/2 years. Well I found out that you cannot talk to a person and know for sure whether they will be there beside you when the feces hits the fan. They don't even know for sure until it happens. I can remember the first time I put my life on the line. I did not know if I would have the guts to do what had to be done or not until it was over. I had to do it many more times but the first was the most freighting because I really didn't know myself.

I believe that Abraham found out himself that day that he would follow God no matter what the price. Don't kid yourself God already knew, just like He already knows what we will do with our lives, but that does not mean He says will Ralph is never going to follow me so I will just kill him now and get it over with. No He gives us chance after chance, and yet He knows who will and who won't before they are even born. Now some people like to say this means we don't really have a choice but that is stupid. If I stand at the entrance to a road where the bridge has been washed out and try to warn people so they are not killed, but I know these people think I am a nut so they won't listen to me, but I try anyway. Lets say they laugh and drive on to their deaths, did they have a chance? Sure they did, it is not my fault for trying to tell them and them not listening.

even when JESUS was betrayed by his brother Judas and turned over to the Romans ....what was it GOD said I gave my only son......if JESUS is GOD and GOD is JESUS there was no son and all GOD did was return to heaven because you can't kill GOD..

This is another place we look at things differently. You are right that Jesus knew they could not kill Him for good, but they could kill His body, and it was just as painful to Him as it would be for us. But I don't believe that was the real suffering that Jesus went through for us. Jesus being God was holy, but yet He accepted our sins on Himself. He became a murdered, a liar, a homosexual, an adulterer, a thief, you name it He became it on the cross. Think of every sin you or someone you know has ever committed and then think of Jesus taking that shame and responsibility on His shoulders. Plus just before He died to me tells the whole story of his suffering. When He asked, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34). I can't explain the Trinity very well because it is beyond us to a certain extent, but I can believe that God is one being yet three different individuals (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). God the Father cannot look on anything evil or allow it in His presence, I accept that, so what Jesus was going through was the Father turning His back on Him when He took our sins onto Himself. I don't think we can fully comprehend what pain and suffering that was to Jesus.

The next point I wanted to make is that to me it would have been even more difficult for Jesus to go through for the very reason you brought up, He knew He didn't have to. If someone pulls you from you car and slowly kills you, does that make you a hero because you went through it? You had no choice. But if you see someone else being pulled out of their car and you go and try to help and they say they are going to slowly kill one of you. If you tell them to let the other guy (who you don't even know) go and you will let them kill you, now that would be a hero. Funny, most people would not consider you a hero, just a fool.

Well I guess I said enough for now looking forward to your next letter, and even though I say these things I hope that when GOD comes back to get all the lost souls, HE includes me in the roundup, if for nothing else, so I can be the court jester.....well GOD SPEED and keep a fair wind at your back and a star to steer by till then

Hey I am enjoying this. On one serious note, you can be sure that you will be in the 'round up'. All you have to do is ask Jesus to shoulder your sins and forgive you. He has already done the hard part all we have to do is let Him and we do that by just believing in Him: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:31)

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hey Ralph,
You sir could never make me mad, you see we are both opinionated people. you say the sky is blue, I say it is all colors but blue, which it reflects. We are both right just in different ways. I would hazard a guess and say that most of the people of the BIBLE are also opinionated.

Thanks I am glad you feel that way. It makes it easier to have a discussion, when you don't have to worry about the other person taking everything personal.

I just can't imagine GOD being opinionated. HE loves us all,buddists, moslems, christians, pagans equally.SO how could HE segragate a chosen few and say, these are GOD'S people. and then go in and slaughter, destroy, and otherwise cause pestulance, upon another group of people because they would not let GOD'S people cross the Red Sea. This chosen few became the Isrealites or whom most people today call Jews. These people were led by, you guessed it, Moses. The only man to speak to GOD face to face so to speak. Are we to believe that GOD is actually Jewish and all the rest of us are merely tolerated. It's no wonder that there are so many factions and different beliefs, all believe in a supreme being just in a different way.

Yes I do believe God loves us all but I think you missed something there. God loves everyone that is why He sent His Son Jesus to come to earth as a human and die for our sins. But He is also a jealous God, if you worship anyone or anything else He will punish you. A lot of people say that God is not a just God because of that, but personally I think they just say that because they don't want to do what He asks them.

As far as the Israelites (Jews) being the chosen people, yes I believe that. Does it bother me, no. Here is my view. God chose the Israelites as His people to give lessons to all of us. I believe from the time of Adam, He (God) has been available to ALL men. Now I don't believe that He sent prophets, etc... to all men, but I believe that there is something in every person that testifies to them that there is a greater being then themselves. I believe God judges people on what they know not what they don't know. So in other words if someone from another nation, believed that there was a God who controlled everything and tried to worship Him, not by worshipping trees, or the sun, but worshipping the being that they knew was there. I believe they would be okay. Now as far as the Israelites, that does not apply to them. They were told and shown what was right.

That brings me back to why I believe they were the chosen people. I think God wanted us all to see that even when He talked to and showed people the right way they still resisted. Look at the Israelites. God gets them out of Egypt by a lot of miracles yet they did not trust Him when they came to the Red sea. After He split the Red sea so they could cross, they still did not trust Him for food. He gave them manna, and still they did not trust Him for water. It goes on and on. God comes to the people in a cloud and verbally talks to them and they are scared and tell Moses to tell God to only talk to him, because they are afraid if God talks directly to them they might die. So Moses goes up to the mountain to talk to God and what do the Israelites do while he is gone? They make a golden calf and start worshipping it!! God got angry with them a lot and punished them, but still He blessed them because He loved them. I believe this shows us God's nature. We do lots of things that anger Him but He loves us enough to keep extending His hand to us, over and over and over. Jesus came to earth as the Messiah of the Jews, but they rejected Him. Did He just take his bat and ball and go home? NO he sent his disciples out to preach the message of free salvation to all nations. He did not die just for the Jews.

I still think in modern history you can see God's hand at work with the Jews. Look at the three day war and the seven day war. They were surrounded on all sides yet in three days one time and seven the next time, they defeated their enemies and took some of their land. I believe that is only possible because God was with them.

Putting religion aside for a moment, and using the secular side of your brain. If I was to tell you that a beautiful women not only liked you but two other men equally. Every time you saw her however, she was always with the other two men and not you, would you still think I was telling you the truth? I, in my own mind, have to put GOD in a physical state. If I don't think of HIM as human then I find it hard, not impossible, but hard to comprehend HIS existance. I thought about being a priest when I was young until all what I was told to be true came to a screeching halt, when the same priest at my church who, was later to be arrested for adultry, took the money from the collection plate each Sunday, and when he had enough bought, a new cadillac because he was too good to ride the bus or accept a free taxi ride. I kind of went sour. I don't know if you know all about chatholic priests but, they are sworn to celibacy and to forgo all material things except that which is needed to survive.

Well first let me tell you that if you watch humans you will always be disappointed because we are all sinful by nature. Now some people fall harder than others, but we all stumble at times. What I mean by that is that I try my best to live a Godly life and I pray for help in doing so. But I must admit that there are times when I do evil things. However, as soon as I realize what I am doing I ask for forgiveness and stop doing whatever it was I was doing. I am not sure I am explaining that right. One thing I have noticed, is that the closer I get to God the more I am tempted to do things that are wrong. Why do you think that is? I think it is because Satan does not have to worry about the person who does not try to follow Christ, so he goes after those that are trying.

I voiced my opinion a little too loudly and was excommunicated from the catholic church. Not for how I said it but for what I said.

Now I guess it is time to tell you what I think of the Catholic church. Stand by, even though you are not in it anymore this might upset you. I believe that the Catholic church has lost sight of God. I believe that they have accepted pagan rites. They pray to saints, but those people where human. God says to worship no one other than Him. They ask the priests to forgive them of their sins, but the priest is just a human, only God can forgive sins. (that includes Jesus since He is God). They don't actively proclaim that the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and His FREE forgiveness of our sins. They practice getting to heaven by works. You tell the priest that you did this or that and he forgives your sins if you say this many Our Father's or Hail Mary's. This is bunk!!!!!! That came straight from paganism. Jesus said: "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words." Matthew 6:7

They claim the Pope is infalable, does that not make him a god? Remember God says to have no other gods before Him. A church leader should teach what God says not make up his own rules. The Catholic church teaches that they are the only true church. Wrong again. Jesus is the only way to eternal life and anyone who believes on Him is part of His church. No where in the Bible did Jesus say, you must be a member of this or that group. No He said: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:15-16 I was down on religion for a long time....I ran with the gangs, abused drugs, alchohol, and smoked. and later it boiled over into my adult life. I'm not saying that GOD threw that bolt of lightning into that fuel tank but, I was seperated from my boat on the river and between me and the boat was a Viet-Kong village. I was on my knees praying for something or someone to help me get back to my boat. I was willing to do most anything if I could just get out of there. I was even willing to make a pact with the devil. It was raining and all of a sudden a bolt of lightning struck the fuel tanks that the VC were using to fuel their vehicles. The explosion was enough of a diversion to allow me to get back to my boat and safety. That day my beliefs were ressurected, GOD was on my shoulder all the way back to camp.

I guess I don't have to tell you God loves you. Have you ever wondered what He wants from you? All He wants is for you to believe that He sent Jesus to die for your sins.

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Ralph,
how could I be mad at you for saying about the catholics what I already knew. What ever GOD has in mind for me to do is still a mystery to me. Let me tell you about my aunt and uncle, they would gone to the church (catholic) on Sunday morning and profess their sins, and give the church 10% of their annual wages each "Christ"mas(s) hoping to be blessed.... Then on saturday night they would get sloppy a-- drunk and during the week cuss, take GOD'S name in vain, and more or less be s.o.b.'s...... All the time thinking they were going to heaven because of what they did on Sunday and each year. They had three children one boy and twin girls. the boy come home from college with his boyfriend (lover) and one of the twins was a whore and the other an alcoholic.....You tell me!

Well I hate to say it but you have been surrounded by "Christian's" who weren't Christ like. I get those kind of questions from my page all the time. "Why should I respect Christians when they have killed so many people in God's name?" I know a lot of people don't like my answer because they think it is a cop out, but it is true. If a person does not do what Jesus taught and follow His example then they are not Christians, no matter what they call themselves. Look at what Jesus thought of most of the church officials at the temples in His day. (not much!) Talk is cheap but to really follow what He taught is a lot tougher. It is also a lot more rewarding. Most of my life I thought if I really followed Jesus I would not have any fun or any friends, etc... I have been very pleasantly surprised that those were lies from the father of all liars - Satan. I truely enjoy myself more now, have better friends (because I can truely trust them) and am doing much better in my whole life.

I wish humans did not act like they do, but that is just part of life I guess. Just don't blame God for what stupid humans do no matter what they call themselves.

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Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

Please pray for these people. Pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to speak to them, and that they will find a true personal realationship with Jesus Christ.

Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? If you don't would you like to have?

Yes I would like to know Jesus.

No! I don't care!




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